The Secrets of Zero Point Energy - Tom Valone Hard Truths Podcast

Video Transcript

[clears throat] Welcome everybody to another Hard Truths podcast. This is your host Ashton Forbes. Guys, today I have a very special guest, Tom. Dr. Tom Voluone. He was a the most knowledgeable zero point energy researcher on the planet. Uh Tom, how are you doing today? >> Good, good. How are you? >> Great, man. Thank you for being here. Uh first of all, can you just tell me and the viewers uh how did you get involved in Zero Point Energy? What was your moment where you realized oh the zero point energy is there this is like the future? Um actually it was when I was in college in university um university physics was you know interesting to me but to be honest when I got to fourth yeah fourth year senior year I was taking a quantum mechanics course and the professor for the first time any physics professor ever mentioned God was when he started to talk about the quantum vacuum universe and it was so profound I never forgot that. And then I started to, you know, take the textbook information more seriously. Um, and and also research, you know, what is that little zero point thing and whether it's real or whether it can be used and of course I'm an engineer, you know, as I double majored when I was an undergraduate. I got a bachelor's in both engineering and physics or double degree in other words five years it took me. So basically I always look for the practical application and so that was my uh epitome and then after that um it was a matter of finding something for my PhD. Um when I was doing my masters in physics, I basically visited the sunburst community in um California and it was after I read this book Sunburst Return of the Ancients by Norman Pollson and um and half the book was about UFOs, the other half was about. So I was really intrigued about the combination of those two and what the story was on this machine that he had built and [clears throat] actually paid Bruce Dalma to build. Bruce was the brother of Brian Deal, our movie maker. So it was interesting to um to look at the idea of free energy and that was back quite a few years ago around 1980. So where does that lead you then in terms of both I guess not just only on zero point energy but the connection between 0 point energy and UFOs? Well, that's the that's the intriguing part of this whole story of mine. uh which I also told around 2001 at the disclosure um event at the National Press Club is that it sort of led me down this road where as soon as I was um interested in free energy which basically contradicted all the physics laws that I had thought you know I learned um and put me sort of at odds with my professors except for one professor that let me worked on a pole polar uh generator for my master's degree and and from then on I was more encouraged to think for myself rather than look for the professor's ideas of what to do for a PhD and uh so eventually I ended up pursuing the 0 point energy theme and subject matter practical conversion of 0 energy for a useful work that was my the >> and so you think uh aliens are using 0 point energy technology to fly around. >> Well, it it's interesting. People look at 0 point energy as um as a a catch word, but [clears throat] to be honest, it's really the ripples on top of the quantum vacuum. So, you've got a whole negative energy se. It's called the direct sea uh of negative energy that can be stimulated to produce unlimited energy. So the 0 point half a quantum of of ribbles is is interesting because it manifests in many ways which is also present in my book 0.0022 of the future. Um but basically the interesting part is that even recently we've had professors like here at Modell um prove that it can be rectified. I think that's the book I'm talking about. And essentially I've um reduced and summarized all the best information into 12 chapters for that book with pictures on almost every page. So it's a very readable book in that regard. >> So let me ask you why because the first thing people are always wondering the skeptics of course are why is this not first of all why aren't you a trillionaire and why is this technology not more prevalent right? What what would you say to those? How would you answer those questions? >> People ask that all the time and and that's been my goal ever since 1980 literally um 46 years now of of trying to answer that question and and each time I I try to pursue it the latest is my interest in Manellis wonderful inventor. I found a a great physicist who um described the invention uh free energy um really under controlled circumstances drove a car so forth. Basically there's lots of um problems with inventor psychology paranoia. They were very prevalent in the 80s and 90s. almost every conference I went to there were lectures and discussions and fear was in the air of suppression. Um and and it's funny because I can tell you lots of stories about the uh real events that have suppressed many of the devices including the Mory device. I mean that's a famous one um the sea of energy book that describes what happened to Henry my so go down the list of all these depression problems uh inventor problems even when they get patents the licensing part of the patent uh life you know lifetime uh is supposed to be you know sort of taken for granted but in most cases I found braid inventors have very serious problems is marketing their invention. I do too. We already have one invention. I got another one patent pending right now. And overall the um marketing part of it oftent times and I admit that in my own psychology is not part of our makeup. You know, how do we reach the public and explain the usefulness and also probably produce a prototype? That's the other problem. uh and even inventors that have produced prototypes, they still weren't convincing enough to get the sufficient investment. Um I can go on. Eric Learner is a great friend of mine. I had him as a conference speaker. He got an award. He's doing a it's actually the interest most interesting um proton boron fusion application and it's a it's probably the most um innocuous type of fusion and right now actually there was a history of this he resisted for me incorporation I had to convince him yell at him scream at him he finally re incorporated and then have sufficient investment, almost a million dollars to produce for 10 years pretty viable results, send you an email of all his accomplishments, but he's not into the billionaire attraction yet because he doesn't know how to market it and he doesn't want to accept the billionaire ownership of his company. So, he's resisting the um the big investors and only want small investors. Well, that's going to limit the growth of the company. Yeah, it's it's it's an event or a problem in many cases. >> That's an interesting outlook and uh it's funny you bring up LPP fusion uh because yeah, I've been looking at Eric Learner for a while and because he uses one of the few high beta uh fusion concepts which is why like boron a neutronic fusion is even viable. And I personally I'm going to ask you more about that later because I think that there's a pathway to tapping zero point energy there that's kind of not really talked about very much. >> But um on the marketing aspect and then on the patent aspect of all the reasons why these inventors fail because I've been reading through your books and there's dozens [clears throat] dozens of patents and and unsuccessful you know inventions that haven't ever made it to market. is that there's a difference of course between coming up with an idea and then coming up with something that people want to buy. You know, like those are two different things as uh number one, but the one that we always talk about in the uh kind of conspiracy circles is the uh invention secrecy act and making patents disappear or uh classifying them or what have you. Do you have any insight into how that process works and how much that's holding this coming this this back versus just the other reasons? >> Oh, absolutely. I worked at a pet novice on and off for 20 years. So, I was an examiner facing these problems in many some cases. I wasn't in the department that dealt with energy inventions or proposal interventions which are more likely to face those type of military intervention. And uh I'm specifically using that phrase purposely because the sheets that we would receive with some pat applications would list the different military agencies and they would check off which agency was sending the sheet to me as an examiner to let me know if it's going to be classified. Um, and even so, we're supposed to examine it and even if it goes to allowance, it still stays secret and never reaches the public. Um, but in my case, I didn't have a clearance. So, those types of uh inventions that would be secret secretized or classified um were were not of my perview. But the ones that were not, it was still the same sheet that I would receive. um with the agency sign off and I was surprised at how many military agencies have I used I want to use the word ownership but it's really what is it five or six thousand uh patents that are in the vault right now and the Federation for American Scientists fas.org or list those every year uh to let people know and unfortunately the inventor usually is no longer around when 50 years later they finally declassified magnetics. I could go on to the sensitive application warning list u system it was called saws list and and that became such a um an embarrassment for the PTO they finally discontinued it. It was a prejuditial listing of the type of patents that automatically would not be allowed. Faster than light is a good example. And there were many others on that saw list that were so ownorous. I was really upset about it. So um luckily it only lasted for about a year and then it was discontinued. But that kind of psychology is still there in the pat fusion was on the list too. Um that was one of the p primary ones that I was I was targeted for the uh advocacy of co fusion. You know I was sort of an outcast never got to advance into any other position at the office mainly because they didn't trust me and and that's how I got fired too. The commissioner of the pat office said he couldn't trust me. And the arbitrator said, "I, you know, in the Justice Department, I wouldn't fire somebody just because they couldn't trust him. I'd be more interested in knowing that he do his job or not." >> That doesn't even make sense to me, though. It's like if you were to give somebody a patent that doesn't work, that's not real. What What's the worst that can happen? They rip somebody off with the technology doesn't work. I mean, that's kind of like buyer beware on your own thing if you're buying or investing something. So, I don't understand why that would be an issue unless you were hiding technology, right? >> Yeah. Well, Joe Newman was the famous one that got into the manual for patenting examination prosecution. Um, and he actually tried and successfully did have the um National Institute of Standards Technology, NIST, uh, test his invention. But um that that was the most famous free energy device. Uh and I luckily had an access I was given access to the that application sort of out of curiosity. Um and and it was interesting that he claimed the overunity uh in his claims which was a big uh no that was a mistake because you can say anything you want on the disclosure but when it comes to claims they need to be realistic defend defensible and uh and have utility. See, that's one of the aspects of being granted for is they have to be use and have utility and that's part of well it does it work or not. So >> So [clears throat] with these patents, do you think the engineers that know about things like free energy are writing patents to avoid getting around those those problems and those hurdles so they can get their patent approved and using other wording? Yes, that's the only way they will get apparently, right? >> That seems pretty dark that we have incentive structure in place where engineers would just lie about what their technology does really just to avoid like stigma around free energy, cold fusion. I mean, I'm immediately thinking back to how Pudaf's communication patent is just literally called communication device meth. You're just wondering like why is it so vague and then you realize it's some kind of quantum device that uses like the Aaronhoff bomb effect and potentials and you're going wait a minute like this is the reason why is because it you know they would say it's pseudocience, right? They would say it's not really real. So, that kind of leads me to my next question. Um, sort of on the more on the UFO topic, which is, do you think there is a legacy program? I I don't know if you're familiar with that term. That's what everybody is now calling this uh secret alien technology program in the government or reverse engineering or whatever it is, the thing related to the UFOs. >> Do you think there's such a thing? >> Oh, sure. There absolutely. all of the testimonial evidence that's been in Congress recently in the past couple years. Um I've talked to Bob Lazar personally. Uh there's lots of evidence that this has been going on. And it's amazing to me to see the black project um black budget um uh money of billions of dollars that's been going on for about 50 years, maybe 75 years, which is not account accounted for. Um it's a blank check that's sent off to the black budget people. And what's interesting is that even when it's reported like the um was it Wall Street Journal, Washington Post, one of those I saved the article, they only reported on the budget phase for clandestine um espionage as part of that budget. They didn't report on the back engineering part of Area 51, which is the most intriguing. They just left it out completely. So um these guys have had a amazing amount of uh funds to do their work and secure the crash UFOs even from other countries like Canada and so forth. I've heard personal testimony about that as well. Um so yeah, what do you do with the with the saucers once you got them? Um well Bob wrote his autobiography recently describing all the things he experienced and how many saucers he saw at Escort. In fact the movie escort just came out which describes a lot of what I'm talking about as well. Yeah, I I believe Bazar his story about him meeting Edward Teller, you know, that's pretty interesting because Edward Teller, I mean, he's famous, but he's a scientist, you know, so it's not like he's a celebrity walking around where you're going to be mobbed by people. So, it actually makes sense that he would just like see him at some convention and walk up to him and, you know, say hi. And that's how he ends up getting in touch with EG&G later on, which makes total sense because I think Edward Teller was like the guy holding all the secrets in my opinion, >> right? Father of the HBO. Yep. >> Father of the HBO. And so this is where I want to bring up something relatively personal to me, which is how I found out about you and all of this because in my mind, I hold you in high regard because I have been researching the MH370 videos. And I'm going to go ahead and just share this on the screen real quick while I'm discussing this um these videos. And I've been researching them for years now. And specifically, I started doing something that I don't think anybody else in the UFO community really does, which is dig into the science. Kind of more of like what you've been doing. >> And over the years, they led me down to one stark conclusion, which is that we have this technology that we're staring at on the screen that this what I'm staring at here is an operation, a military operation. Meaning that the people recording this are the ones controlling these spheres of plasma flying around. And that means that what Bob Lazar is saying is probably true that we actually have this, you know, hyper advanced technology because what they're about to do to this plane here, make it just vanish like this took me a long time to wrap my brain around what was going on and how this is physically possible in our reality because I found out that this is really what we did to this plane. >> And what I found is it's zero point energy. The answer is zero point energy. the DRA sea like you just mentioned negative energy is just dipping in to that sea. I mean just like David Frroning would say is that if we tap into that zero point energy we get energy but we also get propulsion out of it. And it turns out what we're seeing in this video at least as described to me by uh an online online letter is a low energy phase transition. And what's crazy about that? [clears throat] >> Well, you could tell us what flight this was, a Malaysian flight, so people would know what you're showing. >> Yeah. 370. Malaysian Airlines flight 370. But that's kind of besides the point. I'm really more focused on the science at this point. But one thing I want you to see here is that I mean, this is gravitational lensing right here. when the plane in this exact frame when the plane is bending like this and it's stretching out >> and this is exactly what David Froning was talking about what you were editing and this book did faster than light right here this is >> job took me a whole year to get a 10 book [laughter] was the biggest job I've ever had for a book >> probably going to be in my opinion one of the most important books in history if these videos are true because this is extremely specific specific physics that's in these videos. I've researched all the physics that's out there and it all leads back to this to you, the research that you've been doing on 0 point energy, pretty much all the things that you found. Ultimately, why am I bringing this all up? It's not just necessarily to glaze. And I'll just stop sharing this for a moment >> is because uh the like where is this being hidden? That's what I've been looking into ultimately and trying to figure that out. And number one, I would I would go back to you and say the thing that scares me about this is I hear about, oh, we're reverse engineering this. The aliens have this alien technology, what have you. But I'm looking at the screen shows, we have it. And now I'm going, wait, who made this? Who reverse engineered this? Who built this? >> And all of it goes back to honestly maybe David Froonian himself. maybe people that you've probably people that you've communicated with because you know all the people in the zero point energy realm and what's scary about that is that all these people are nice people you know like you're exceptionally nice but like let's just take Hal Puda for example super nice guy but all roads lead back to him and I just sit here wondering how can he not be involved in this there can't be another more secretive engineers and physicists that are working on this stuff connected to the government beyond people like Paludov, I just got to be those guys. What would you say like in response to that, which is essentially saying like, hey, I think some of your friends like maybe are building alien technology for the government. Well, even if they are, it's not something you're going to hear about and and they basically are compartmentalized in their ability to talk about these things, but I know have fairly well and and talked with him many times, conversed with him. He sent me stuff where, you know, he regards my support of his work highly high regard. But the important part of answering your question is that he's still an academic uh professor in many ways. That's how I regard him. Um he has an institute for advanced studies. um continuing in the Einsteinian tradition um producing lots of different papers and so forth, but he's dabbled in the most extreme uh science that anybody can do, including remote viewing uh for years for the CIA. So you know and also since I know I knew Peter the doctor who brought Eric Geller to this country where did he go but to output off lab in California years ago. So we he's always been of the highest regard for the most unusual uh inventions. Um, and also we might as well mention the um, alien artifact that Linda How was able to let put off the test and analyze and report on. He was the first one she trusted to um, to look at this. Um, >> let me ask you this [clears throat] because I there sorry I got a thought on my mind. I really got to get your opinion on this down the same line, which is, isn't it weird though that I've been screaming on social media these videos are real and that this technology is zero point energy technology and that it it's like literally Hal Pudaf's right. He's right. It's how Pudof science. It's polarizable vacuum, which that dirt is right in the back of this book. You added it right here. >> I'm going this is right. This is it right here. This is it. It's Hal Pudof and Hal Pudof wants nothing to do with me and he wants nothing to do with um he wants nothing to do with me and he wants nothing to do with uh this those videos. He's never he never commented on them. >> Isn't it weird that if that's true and real, >> wouldn't you think that he would want to like you know say some would don't you think he would want to talk to me? like he talks to everybody else in the community that has the craziest claims, but for some reason he just wants won't touch those videos at all. And I'm going, that's suspicious. Like actually makes me even more think that Eric and him and Eric Davis too. I think Eric Davis Absolutely. What's weird about Eric Davis is that I was just watching a clip of him talking about this book, Frontiers of Propulsion Science, which also has DRD authors in it, including John Kramer and a bunch of other people. and he's talking about they they based their physics on stories about wormholes and creatures coming out of wormholes. And I'm going, "Okay, you based all your physics about." But when he got asked about the MH370 videos, he goes he gives like some canned response about there's no authentic videos uh known of the the missing airliner. And I'm like, it's not like he's shy about this stuff. So, I don't know. This is why I'm suspicious of these guys. And it's not to slight them. I'm honestly impressed with it. But the reason why I bring this up with you is like what are the implications of this? Like if we're really hiding this technology, isn't that messed up? This is like free energy technology, right? Wouldn't you agree that it's the implications are if it's free energy and teleportation? Like that's most people think that's a thousand years from where we're at right now, but we already had it 10 years ago. >> Yeah. Yeah. I'm I had a strange experience at an energy conference um with a fellow who will remain nameless and um I got to sit with him away from the investor who sort of was owning him or controlling him. I mean it was that close of a relationship unfortunately. Um, so I sat with him for at least 20 minutes, half hour by the two of us and and one of the questions I asked was about teleportation. >> He had actually worked on teleportation as he claimed. Um, he told me lots of uh details about how they were going between two different labs in California. named and specifically uh the the bad part was the um uh there's a movie called The Fly which is basically describing something similar and unfortunately it doesn't get teleported as as you would hope a human would be. Well, unfortunately this is exactly what this fellow described to me. He said they they were able to do objects. They thought UPS would love this teleportation invention because you could ship something around the country or whatever. Um, and and unfortunately they tried to send a cat and unfortunately what arrived at the other end was not a cat. That's exactly the words he used. So I could only imagine and I said, "Hey, they made a movie like this on the fly. Did you ever see it?" He said, "No." He didn't even know what I was talking about. He was such an introverted scientist. So that's that's my story. I've had so many anecdotal stories like this that you know I try to put them like Cal said in in a box of gray the gray box of may be true possibly even be true. And that's what I faced with help put off many times as well. >> Yeah. Yeah. And I think that I mean from those guys perspective, if I was hiding this technology, I would push a bunch of out as well as a bunch of truth so that people can't tell the difference anymore. And then that way that's how you do it. And that's what happened when the nuclear weapons secrets leaked, right? Is that they didn't address it. When the nuclear weapons secret leaked, they could have thrown the dude in prison, but then that would have validated the leak. Uh so and instead of addressing any single parts, you just don't address any of it. And then people are wondering, well, they don't know what's true and they don't know what's not true. and nobody knows anything about science, so nobody can can teach themselves anything about it. Um, >> one of the interesting beginnings of that coverup procedure that the military started is way back in the Roswell incident. And um and I have a slide specifically describing the um uh and I should know the guy's name, one of the uh military fellows who is involved in the uh description and the um disclosure of the Roswell artifacts. And of course the day after he's holding some aluminum foil and so forth as if the the balloon story was the real reality. Well, in his hand was a telegraph that specifically has now been decoded with um you know enhanced resolution computer you know specific software and and it describes the fact that um he he was instructed to provide this as a cover story. >> So I can pull up that slide if you're interested. >> No, that's okay. You can leave it. I I think we're familiar with that. A lot of people know that story >> as well. So, it's fascinating to me that that this has been the practice ever since. >> Yeah. They definitely use disinformation. I think that it's hard for people to believe that and a lot of people that's what's going to break a lot of people's minds. What I would want to tell you and I forgot to say this before is that you're absolutely right and it is hard. I've talked to a lot of people. I was talking to I think Tim Ventur the other week and I know one of the things he struggles is like how do you tell the difference between what's true and what's BS and I think everybody struggles with that you know and then you always second guess yourself especially if you're an intelligent rational-minded person you're always second guessing yourself >> and what all I know for sure is I don't know anything about aliens and which aliens are real or not what have you but I'll tell you I know those MH370 videos are real and that physics is real and I know that physics is the same physics that you've been pushing 0 point energy so you're absolutely Absolutely right. You should never second guessess yourself on any of that. 100%. That's what that's what British wanted you to know personally. Um and then uh the teleportation thing, like the thing people need to know about teleportation, what I've learned from those videos is that it's not be me up Star Trek type teleportation, be me up Scotty uh teleportation. We're dealing with like traversible wormholes like actually like b making a bridge between spacetime, but that still causes the same problems potentially as like the fly. Uh because if you don't like I what I tell people is I make the joke like keep your hands and and legs inside the wormhole. Like don't don't put your arm out there otherwise this is going to be a um what is it the Philadelphia experiment problem right? people melded into the walls like that would be I think the real at least maybe there's multiple physics I don't want to limit things but the physics of unlabored acceleration is that your object where's my plane one sec like my plane here right is moving at a constant velocity and the orbs in that situation are also in the frame of reference of the plane perfectly spinning around the plane moving the exact same speed as the plane itself and they're creating like a null point where the plane is at the null point where the electromagnet magnetic fields all cancel each other out. So they're creating a bridge between the two points and then at the end if you were paying close attention they converge when they start to flatten they converge. Now, if I look at my physics, and I'd love to have your critique on this, I would say this has got to be some form of dynamic kasmir effect of the plates coming together is that these orbs are acting as mirrors. And so, at the end, they're coming together and that's what's triggering the singularity is after they hit some kind of harmonic, they come together and poof. So I don't know all the details there but um to me that means that that plane's coming out somewhere else on the other side which is incredible that and based on the physics of faster than light it would mean that that plane is potentially being shot out like a magic FedEx like it's actually based on the right hand rule and the a vector potential like they're actually shooting it like backwards that way which is what a lot of people ask me is like where did the plane go and I say oh it's going backwards because these orbs are spinning around it counterclockwise and if I just apply the right hand rule I'm going to get a vector potential exactly backwards of the plane. Does that make sense to you? Do you think that could be possible? >> Well, the vector potential is is more specific than that. It's um you can use the right-h hand rule to identify the magnetic and electric field directions and and the direction point of metallic object for example. Um but the the vector potential is is is not a magnetic field. Um but it causes it's an a a field we call it and it's causing the B field to to exist. So I've created an A field with a toy and actually we have it's it's Tesla's electric chair which I was prohibited from using that phrase. So it's called our energy chair uh the mere 4000. It's on our website and I build them once in a while for for customers but um essentially it also can be um improved upon and and also described in a portable device. So you'd have a vector potential that can be aimed at at something. And it does the vector potential has a longer uh range than the B field does. Uh it doesn't go over it doesn't diminish 1 / r 2. >> It diminishes one over r. So it's it's a it's a longer lifetime or longer lifespan in terms of distance. But the vector potential is intriguing in many ways because it goes through things that the B field would not. So it's worth researching because it's something I would say more at a higher level or even a higher dimension than our electric magnetic fields are. >> Well, let me ask you I appreciate that description by the way. One thing you just said that I need to follow up on is that you said in Einstein tradition, what was the reference? Was that reference to Hal Pudof's Institute for Advanced Studies or just his overall >> what what's I'm not familiar with? What's the tradition? Well, in Princeton, New Jersey is where the Institute for Advanced Studies was originally formed for the benefit of Einstein and a few other colleagues to basically have a safe uh convenient place to do their research and and paper writing and so forth that professors normally do when they're free of teaching, you know, lecturing all the time and and doing lab work. Uh it's amazing all the professors I' I've met over the years and worked with and and they're they're pretty uh confined and constrained with how many classes they have to teach. So depending on the university they could be overworked when they would really rather be in the lab or simply writing the theoretical papers. So the Institute for Advanced Studies was a gift. Um, okay. You're free to do whatever you want 24 hours a day, 247. Wow. >> And that's amazing for somebody like Einstein or Alto because and Eric Davis of course too and he worked with him because then they produced some pretty amazing stuff. I have one paper by Eric Davis. still I think the best one on all the potential free energy inventions that he came across and has lots of things that even Mark Mills never thought of. So >> yeah. No, that Okay, now I'm 100% convinced those guys definitely made that that technology. I mean, who else could it possibly be? I mean, I knew I had a feeling you were gonna say that. Go ahead. I did research and wrote it down on a piece of paper, you know, >> I mean that Institute thing I I didn't realize there was that's what the story behind the Institute thing was. I actually had speculated that people that watch my live streams are probably nodding along cuz I had speculated it was something like that. I'm like, why is he calling the Institute for Advanced Studies? This like mirrors like the, you know, the original Institutes for Advanced Studies. And then you just wonder like oh well because he's like the original goat of zero point energy. you know, he wrote all those papers on the original papers on 0.8 ground state of the hydrogen atom, uh, gravity 0 point fluctuation force, you know, polarizable vacuum model, which Eric Davis, I swear I heard Eric Davis say that Kudaf had gotten nominated for a Nobel Prize for that uh, paper. I thought he said that. Did that. You heard that rumor at all by any chance? >> No, I have not. Not sure if just writing a paper would be sufficient, but sometimes it is. Especially if it results in a product, you know, if >> it results in teleportation, you certainly should get a Nobel Prize. >> Yeah, if you can be proven, there's a connection. >> Well, that's a problem because it couldn't be proven, right? I don't think those guys care about Nobel prizes, though. Because, you know, I was thinking about Bob Lazar. Let's go back to that for a second because you're a big fan of Bob Lazar. I I believe him. And I was listening to this clip of Bob Lazar saying that, you know, basically saying that he's like uh retrospectively looking at what he did going, you know, the people that hid this. He's saying they were smart people. They weren't dumb people that chose to hide this for like some stupid reason. They they chose to hide this for some reason. We may not understand exactly, but they did it. And it must be for some good reason because these were smart people that did it. And he goes, "Maybe I'm the you know? maybe I'm the one that's like win against this uh you know you know what do you think about that perspective uh on this because I look at those guys and I go >> you know maybe the reason why they're hiding this is if you think of the implications of free energy I mean it's pretty easy to imagine somebody making a doomsday device that blows us all up you know so if I were to steal me on the other side of it I would go I can't trust like 99% of people on this planet with this kind of technology you know maybe those people are right. What would you say? >> I I have a lot of information to share in that topic. I could probably write a book just about that topic really. Um, one thing that does come to mind is Martin Fleshman's lecture that he basically it's on a video. It's on the key by the way that I sent you. Uh, which by the way is available for other people too. 64 gigabytes of 12 conferences. It's never been done before in the world all in one little flash drive. So, but I think Martin Fleshman's lectures there too because we included in Ky One just as an extra visit happened during the same year he visited uh our city here in College Park. Um, and I knew somebody at the Naval Research Lab who knew him personally and therefore said, "Hey, Tom, can you rent a place in the hotel? We're going to have Martin Flesh from there and he'll give a little talk and we can record it." Said, "Sure, that'd be great." So anyways, after the talk though what Martin told us which was in case you're not familiar viewers pans and fleshman are famous were in 1989 in Utah doing a press conference which they should probably have not done uh claiming that they had uh successfully had excess heat produced in a cold fusion experiment. Of course, it went all over the world, headlines and everything. And then basically the question was, well, who's replicated it? Is this real or not? And of course, they were debunked within about a year or less. And unfortunately, co fusions had a bad name ever since. I personally experienced that at the patent office. And you know you can go on and on about the the struggle that full fusion guys who I know personally even at university down the street in DC are still working with today. Well, what Martin said to us afterwards at dinner was we should have probably classified this whole thing so we would have been free to work on it without the public pressure of, you know, denigration and so forth. So right, >> you know, keeping it hidden often times allows for a lot more freedom, of course, and and less political pressure. >> And cold fusion, I think, would you agree is real? I mean, I think what they produced was real. I don't think it was an anomaly. I don't think they're bad scientists. I think they found cold fusion which was anomalous heat uh from room temperature uh setup which was was performing fusion at low scales but scales enough that were big enough to be measured. Would you agree or disagree? >> Oh I definitely would agree but what we find in the history of cold fusion is that some of the best performers like Dr. Patterson for example, Patterson was the I would say the foremost hope for co fusion back when he was working with palladium balls, small spheres of palladium which has been the um the haunting um I would say troublesome issue for all the cold fusion guys. I was even at a coion conference which was very interesting because one of the scientists brought their guy from it who produced the best palladium for him and he brought him to the conference just for no good reason you know just to say I've got a you know handle on the best palladium ever you know it really works well that's been the problem ever since put over $2 million into visible spheres, lots of patents. Everybody thought this was going to really work out well and unfortunately um they degraded and this is the problem we've seen with nuclear batteries too. Um you get a nice beta source, everything is working fine and then the electrodes start to degrade. So the nuclear battery has gone through a similar analogous situation. Oh, it's successful. It's going to be commercialized. Oops. It doesn't work for a long period of time. supposed to last 25 years last less than one year, you know, and then you go up and down with one company after another. >> And so what I say about that is that I think people just they see an experiment like ponds and fleshman, they took this palladium, they put it in heavy water and then they put a charge through it. I think that was basically it. And the idea is that the hydrogen's getting trapped in the lattice structure of the palladium and then therefore when the charge goes through it, it jiggles and gets fusion happen. quantum tunnel infusion occurs. And I think that people, they take it too literally. They go, "Okay, I'm just going to recreate exactly this." Which, by the way, for the viewers, there was like 60 recreations of Pawns and Fleshman until the DOE jumped in and started debunking it. Uh, which is why I say it's it's real. But instead, I think about George Miley because George Miley would say, I want to look at it from a plasma perspective. Like, if we break down the molecules, what's really going on here? He would say, "Okay, we break down the the metal and we have the lattice structure and then we break down the hydrogen and we put the hydrogen in there." And you look at that perspective and that gets around, I think, a lot of the problems that people are having when they're trying to do these experiments, including the Safefire project, which is that all this stuff's melting. So, because like at these temperatures using these nuclear uh materials, there's it's degrading, you know, if especially if something gives off neutrons. So, that's one of the big problems I think. And so if you goes straight to the source, it would be like, "Okay, I want to go straight to plasma." And that's what's so interesting about those videos, those plasma orbs and the plas plasma orbs that they're revealing from these UFO file videos is I look at that and I go, "Huh, that seems like a workaround to all these problems people are having with cold fusion, uh, propulsion, energy from the vacuum." It's like, "Oh, just go straight to plasma, go straight to the source, magneto hydrodnamics." What do you think? >> Sure. I mean, there's lots of variations that people have looked for with Cusion, but um I'm not sure if something that produces excess heat is a popular um topic for the public. So, I our institute has ceased referring to cold fusion except for maybe once a year if there's something notable in a major publication. Um, it it's been a slow um I would say research avenue for most researchers. >> Let me help you out on this one. Let me help you on this one. I'll give you I'm going to give you a little marketing tip on this one because you're I know you're good at marketing. Get rid of cold fusion. Now we're upgrading cool fusion. This is how we bridge the gap between cold fusion and what hot fusion is doing. not tokamax style instead LPP or high beta fusion that if we look at that fusion we say what if we can find a way to reduce the cool barrier if we can find a way to reduce the cool barrier now that a neutronic fusion that boron 11 proton boron 11 which we thought was like what 200 million degrees or something we need in order to make fusion happen seems impossible it's like 200 times hotter than the core of the sun well now if we can bring that down now suddenly why are be bothering with any other fusion like just go to the best because that fusion has no neutrons. It's clean. It's abundant, you know. So that's infinite energy right then and there. So I look at and that's where I say this is what we should be promoting. We should be promoting not doing tokamac fusion, metal donut fusion, which is just a scam, is never going to work. And we should be promoting these alternative forms of fusion which are probably really if we're being honest is probably some kind of catalyzed zero point energy mixed with fusion because they're going to be like tapping into fusion zero point energy probably even if they don't want to when they're doing this is my opinion. So anyway, sorry you can continue but that's just a little tip that I wanted to give you because I think that that's based on what I researched at least on those orbs flying around. You look at their temperature, they're not quite hot. And even the orbs that are floating around these UFO files, they're not white hot either. And they were calling them cold orbs in one of those leaked documents from uh just yesterday. Actually, they're calling them cold orbs. And they were calling them cold orbs because they're looking at them in infrared. They're looking at them and they actually switch between white is hot and red is white is hot and black is hot. And either of them, they're like, "This doesn't make sense. It should be white hot if this is some kind of energy." But it's it's it's relatively cool. which tells me this is probably manipulating the vacuum in addition to maybe doing fusion, things like that. Have you seen or have any thoughts on that? >> Well, orbs are are still very mysterious and and they haven't been studied because they're so ephemeral, so I'm not sure if such a transient phenomenon can be controlled and coached in. It's like ball lightning. It reminds me of ball lightning. Is it gonna come through your window so you can study it for a few seconds before it dissipates? Um, >> it is ball lightning. I mean, John Wheeler, John Arj Wheeler is the one who coined the term ball lightning. And I just found out that it's also called cool blitz in German. uh ball lightning is but ball lightning the when John Wheeler was coining the term ball lightning the intent behind it is really the most revealing part is that he called ball lightning because he was looking at a way to produce a black hole not with matter but with light with energy because he realized E= MC^² >> this is huge because this is my normie brain before I started researching zero point energy I was thinking well a black hole is just a ton of mass packed together but what if you say well I don't need mass what if I try to do it with energy with light because light is just electromagnetic energy and E= MC². So boom. >> And then now I'm looking at three plasma orbs spinning around and teleporting a Boeing trip 7 out of this guy and I'm going oh well I think he might be right. Maybe that ball lightning thing was actually actually legit. Which is why, you know, you say ball lightning and I say this is where I would push back and say these aren't like ephemeral. These aren't ghosts that we're looking at. These are physical objects that we're looking at. And I don't think it's just it is like physically like plasma. And I think that what's happening is probably just the use of geometry like clever use of geometry of spacetime to create a structure that's much more stable than we would think because we're missing like a whole another dimension. You know something in between that is also charge clusters um pen shoulders great invention and here help off comes back into the picture again uh which the the field book describes in detail tanker's book specifically because it was at the um DoD's list top 10 list of you know dangerous inventions so charge clusters are very intriguing to me because Um they're also called pillow electrons by another professor who also discovered them and was able to clasp together over a thousand electrons. And quantum mechanics allows for that even though they're the same charge and should repel each other. But when you get close enough then there is this unusual attractive uh strong force um or it can be a weak uh nuclear force I believe because they're electrons which then holds them together in a in a bundle. Well Ken found and we actually have a CD of pens. We also have the book which will be released shortly um since you demanded it. um the EV disco discovery book of of 10 shoulders describing all the research that he did to show how a charge cluster of electrons can blast holes in anything. So that's why the Department of Defense was so interested because they seemed to be super destructive and maybe could be way made into a super weapon, which basically was never realized, but for years that was their selling point. >> Uh spoiler alert, it can definitely be made into a weapon because I'm staring [laughter] at it being I'm staring at it being turned into a weapon. Uh yeah, number one. Wow. that the Lin McTagert reference actually when I read that in this in your book I went I actually called you right after that because I went what's going on here is am I like you in a time warp or something because you were finding all the same stuff that I had found and you wrote this book obviously before I even began researching any of this stuff so I think that's that's to me that just goes to show that when you know different diverging minds converge on the same topic you realize there's something actually here >> and that's so big because what did I just mentioned I mentioned this idea of cool fusion where we could reduce the coolon barrier. Well, what did Ken shoulders show with his EVs and Hal Pudof of course is they showed oh well these things are clustering together when the coolon barrier should be pushing them apart. They should be repelling. So it potentially is an analog or they are but just directly found a way to reduce the cool barrier. It's hard to say exactly because we don't really understand the physics that was happening there. But you just said too that you've got a secret book of Ken Shoulders that Yes, I did demand. Uh because wow. Uh if that's true, then more people need to know. And what I know about Ken shoulders is the way he wrote stuff wasn't conventional with conventional like writing because a lot of stuff he was talking about there was no conventional physics to explain what he was doing. So there's definitely going to be I think secrets to decode in that book. Um, if all that's true, >> and I'm happy to share a story, personal story of Ken shoulders, which actually um was told to me by Ken at a time when there was a lot of paranoia and concern about suppression and um and the essential men in black type of story. So uh here here he describes a fact which actually happened to him during that height of the [clears throat] um charge cluster um reputation. Um he essentially wrote the book quickly sent copies overseas and with a letter saying I'm going to demand this book be returned to me when I need to but I'll let you keep it for a while. Um, and then when the military guy showed up at his house saying, "Here's the classification papers. You're not allowed to talk about it. If you do, you have to report it to our agency." Da da da. You know, the normal classification rhetoric. He says, "You're too late. I've already shared it overseas and it's out there." And the guy had turned be red and was super angry and and furiously left where where Ken was, you know, supremely happy that he had countered these suppression cover up basically the standard procedure that classification often does to civilian scientists. You know what's even honestly a cra that's that's a crazy story but honestly what could be even more crazy with Ken shoulders is that he got an apology from Richard Fineman. I mean the Richard Fineman sends an apology. I'm just going to read it right here. When you were in my office I could not see how 10 to the 10 or 10 to the 11 electrons we kept in a ball in a vacuum without ions. I mean he's specifically talking about the charge clusters here. It says so I was skeptical and didn't and didn't let you tell me about them. I must apologize for it has come to my attention that it is indeed possible in a uniform magnetic field a group of electrons rotating at the lamar procession frequency feel from the p point of view of the observer rotating with them a force toward the axis which be in size equal the centrifugal force expected from this rotation but directed inward. So he's explaining that this rotation would explain the reason why this is possible. says, "Then an electric quadripole could be used to hold them by repulsion along the axis as long as they force away from the axis generated by the quadripole does not exceed the previously noted confining force in the magnetic field." And then anyway, so he says a couple more paragraphs and say, "Again, apologize for my skepticism which prevented me from hearing about something very interesting. Sincerely, Richard Fineman." >> That's that would be nice. I could include it with the book as we release it. You definitely should put that in the front because that's crazy. I mean, that's Richard Fineman, man. >> Yeah, I'm just about to publish it on TV. >> Okay, I'll put I'll put a link to this for you. It's from Leonard forum, actually. So, >> and actually to share the Fineman's theme for a second if you're interested. Um, there's also a story about Fineman being interested in the CAP engine. Um, and PAP was famous for having an engine that basically only used noble gases to power itself. And it was a two-cylinder type of uh com internal combustion engine. But it also used electricity which was probably the biggest problem because when Fineman finally was um interested in seeing it and actually brought another colleague from the University of California uh he ended up pulling the plug from the wall and which caused the thing to explode and ended up killing somebody. So they were about to sue the university um and they've settled out in court. But it's a famous story that Simon is skeptical for various reasons like almost anything in Israel. >> Wow. Yeah. I mean that's the problem with some of this too is that if something goes wrong it's easy to like just for a whole avenue of science or an invention to just disappear even if it works too you know it's like just accidentally kill a bunch of people >> I should add add to that story that we have a pep engine report available on Amazon and we get orders for it pretty often uh it's a pretty thick one over 100 pages which I should put into a book form but right now it's in a report form stapled together. But the information is very um it's one of those uh topics that are so convincing that it should be out there as a product. And what I've done is accumulated all the evidence so far, including uh Ryan Wood's story that when engineers and he was alive uh was popular and interesting to people. Brian was interested also in trying to pursue it, but his father Bob Wood at Lockheed um told him personally that yes, it does work. We've been interested in it, but unfortunately the um oil companies told us not to pursue it and so Lucky dropped the project. >> Bob Wood Yeah. He was of McDonald Douglas Bob Wood's testimony through to his son Ryan. Yeah, >> he seems like a very genuine guy. Bob Wood did. Um, and real quick, I want to shout out your website because people are want probably wondering. We've already mentioned multiple times some content I think people are interested. integrity-ressearch.org. I'll also put it in the description on the YouTube channel so that people can access it. You can find any of these products um and and the research that we'll be talking about. I think almost all of it's for sale on um on on Tom's uh website. >> Great. So, uh, let me ask you, I want to talk a little bit about some of the stuff in the UFO community because I think there's a lot of overlap. I think it's somewhat undeniable. I'm actually trying to pull back the UFO community back towards the science, back towards the technology. Um, not because I don't believe in aliens or any of the other stuff, but I think that's the most important part and that's what I think that they're trying to hide and keep held back from us because of all those implications. And I think that people deserve to know the truth and deserve to to, you know, argue about it. So let's start with um Salvatore Py. You know, Salvatore Py was also a patent examiner. He works for the Navy and he did the patent examiner thing because he actually like want and I don't want to speak for him, but um kind of wanted to do kind of what Einstein did, right? Is Einstein was a patent patent clerk. So he wanted to like see that from his perspective. I don't know exactly when he got radicalized. He's kind of standoffish about that. He worked with Northrup Grumman as like a special analyst too. So he could have he could have seen some stuff like multiple places, right? And now he works at Puxit River in the for the Navy. So what do you think about his patents? I've spoken to him multiple times. I have my opinions, but I'm interested about yours, especially with your insight. >> Well, I haven't had the privilege of talking to him, but I've reviewed his patents to some degree and and it's pretty um controversial, of course. uh and and this is u probably one of the biggest problems with patents is that it's a great publication avenue but in many cases it can be theoretical and specifically not reduced to practice and that's the phrase we often use when we're you know referring to a patent because if it's just in the intellectual realm then uh it's nice to talk about faster than light and inertia overcoming inertia and so forth. But the uh the reduc reduction to practice is certainly very important. And I I feel for example on both of those topics that traveling to Mars, traveling to other planets um and and even being in space for any length of time really demands the um ability to shield the uh spaceship from incoming uh cosmic rays and and super fast asteroidal pellets and various other subatomic particles because basically We hear stories about astronauts being bombarded with thousands of particles, you know, every minute and they they damage their DNA. They cause aging. Uh there's a lot of effects. For example, after um the senator, I believe, spent a year in the space station and then spent, you know, a few years on Earth afterwards recovering because all the the exposure. So inertial shielding I think is essential not only for the protection of incoming um particles and and anything even bullets for example you know all of a sudden when it comes past the shield um that bullet no longer has any mass. This is this is a protection which you see with UFOs even recently with the um what was it the Sidewinder missile that was aimed at UFO and then just bounced off. I mean you know this is unbelievable uh behavior but it's not when you theoretically understand inertial shielding. um I've had the experience of talking to some of the highest people and one fellow from NASA and I asked him do you have the access to classified uh documents and he said no. So therefore, a lot of these very important people who are controlling our agencies are deprived of some of the most advanced um ideas and patents. Not the patents, but the ideas that are reduced to practice in the black world. Um which which should be shared at least with the um different um people that are in charge of the advancement of our um spaceships. for example. Um, but we also should be aware of the fact that communication to Mars will take several minutes for our electromagnetic signal to reach there. Our telephone wireless telephone call and then several minutes for the answer from the first to come back. Well, scalar communications are a way of doing faster light communication. Um got the report that our we sell and and scalar potentials and fields. Um it's it's a very promising field much like what Pastor Pasis has is investigated. Um, but reducing it to practice, I think, is essential for when we get to Mars because we're going to want to communicate with all the people there. And to have such a delay in our communication will, I think, be a really handicap and trying to advance our um our communication and connection to the people around us. >> Yeah. I think what I'm hearing is that, you know, from a theoretical standpoint, I think you agree with the patents and what they're what they're saying they can do. Um, and of course, I think unfortunately he would never be allowed to like make a device from the US Navy that's like anything like any of these because it would be classified, you know. >> Yeah. He might be able to do it, but he wouldn't be able to talk about it. >> Yeah. [laughter] And so I think what these pads represent is the best opportunity that we can get from somebody on the inside to reveal them in approved mechanism. You know, that's not getting anybody in trouble. And unfortunately, this is the best we can get because if we went any further, they would be classified and they wouldn't the patents wouldn't exist or we would never see them. So that's the impression that I get from him. But I do think the secret sauce is kind of in there. Specifically, I think the secret sauce is frequency. I think it's both resonance and I think it's also high frequency. high frequency and resonance because that's how you bring down the stiffness of spaceime. If we look at sta sp space sp space sp space sp space sp space sp space sp space sp space sp space sp space spacetime as like a a medium and we're trying to polarize it. We're trying to, you know, manipulate it, get it to wiggle for us so that we can teleport, that's that would be what I think we need. And he specifically harps on that in several of his equations on amplification of uh magnetic fields um which is I think what he's alluding to. Let me ask you do you I have this theory that what where the line and classification is uh and this also applies to UFO me is the extra dimension that they are not allowed to talk that there's an extra dimension that with free energy is real that we can pull free energy from 0. So essentially it would say like broadly 0 point energy is classified. Would you agree with that? Would that make sense? >> Not really. certain I've got a couple of books on exactly that topic. Even the practical conversion of 0.9 book which is also a popular more theoretical rendition of my thesis was really the attempt to show every possible theoretical means to convert 0 energy into products. and and I'm excited to show that not only energy production but also propulsion um is possible with a number of different uh devices even in the nano and and micro region of nanotechnology. So uh in general I think we do have a lot of freedom to publish the theoretical basis even aburis world drive you know is very well known and often referred to as proofs that yes we can travel faster than the speed light because we can warp space in front of us compress it and expand it behind us but the practical application of that seems to be done in UAVs and UFOs all the time by their behavior of right angle turns and fast acceleration but here on earth this as you say uh may be too dangerous for it to be declassified uh and that becomes our our conundrum because in general I think our civilization is still in the infancy stage where we don't have enough responsibility to um and responsible control over population's behavior to really be able to handle the extreme power that's available. >> I agree with the atomic and hydrogen bombs. >> I would only push back and say I think this is what I call felony physics. I would say that the only reason why these aren't classified is because I think they're not intended as weaponization. All these patents are intended for, you know, energy generation. Most of them, the ma the main ones, the points are like basically free energy microchips, right? And I think that there's a special carveout for that where now they're potentially letting some of that out. But I would say the reason why you don't get slapped down and you I'm talking about you specifically because like >> I think you've got a lot of felony physics stacked up over here is because the same reasons why they didn't slap down the nuclear uh atomic the hydrogen bomb leaker guy, right? Is that the guy that they published that they could have done that, but if they do, then they they prove that it's all real. And instead, what they did was they tried to marginalize you, right? They put you in the courts for six years fighting over your patent office thing when all in reality everything you were saying is true and real and and that's the way I think they dealt with the situation instead of like you know offing you or destroying your life more uh more directly or something like that and that's how I would push back is I would say that's what it means is the hiding in plain sight like all the science and all the physics is there how putoff's papers are there and if putoff ever gets pressed before he dies I think he'll probably just say, "I didn't lie. All the papers are all there. I told you guys you just didn't pay attention." Right? Doesn't that kind of make sense? Go ahead. >> Yeah. And that often is the best defense from being suppressed or um or any of the conspiracy theories that oftentimes are shared with the suppression of inventors. As long as you're sharing the information and not trying to hide it, um then the paranoia disappears because I have nothing to hide. I I'm happy to share everything I learned and I think benefiting humankind is really my mission. So I think other scientists should try to do the same and eventually maybe we'll have more political evolutionary control over you know international communications and relationships that eventually maybe we'll have a United Nations that really works and maybe they'll be in charge instead of our local governments being in charge. So that would be kind of fun to have a united world that then could be part of the Federation of Worlds and you know a lot of Star Trek consciousness is very futuristic. So with respect to this UFO disclosure stuff going on, I don't hear any of these people talking about zero point energy. Every once in a while somebody throws in a comment about free energy or something like that. What do you think these people's agenda or narrative is? I'm not even sure if you necessarily believe there's one, but just assume for a second that these people who are revealing aliens that they have some sort of agenda. Do you think that they are potentially intentionally avoiding talking about 0 point energy free energy? >> Well, the two don't necessarily have to be synonymous. I I I feel that 0 energy is a good in inroad to free energy. uh free energy basically is something I've found over the decades to be something that everyone understands. You know, energy should be free just like air is free and water used to be free. Um so essentially that that is a a given and maybe it's our manifest destiny that um as some of the great books that I've referred to and and learned from say that uh civilization will end up dying if it doesn't continually advance in more concentrated forms of energy. And that's a profound discovery I found because in general it it predicts the um problem we're having right now with billionaires throwing money at every fusion invention in the world when many of them you know may not even work at all but they're desperate for the concentrated energy that you need to advance our civilization to the next level of activity of AI of you know international inter spatial interplanetary uh travel as well. So that's that's an important consideration for the advocacy of free energy. But um I think in general it's it's a phrase that is not referred to by any scientific community and professors. I mean, you can name half a dozen of them that would never use the phrase at all because of the political and social control and prejudice against it because it sounds unscientific. And I've suffered from that. I've been an advocate advocate of free energy for 45 years now. and and I've suffered every um prejuditial remark and debunking that can possibly be aimed at somebody. Um and and the only respit I would say I I received was um well any public any publicity is good even if it's bad. >> Well, I personally love it that they hate those terms and that's the reason why I use them all the time. That's why reason why even though it's not technically free energy because like you said people think of free energy as actually being like free as in costing zero and that's not what we're talking about because it's gonna you the machine that has to pump 0 is going to cost something so it's more of the cost will approach zero from an economic standard >> capital investor >> but you know I still just call it free energy because let's be honest not everybody under that's way beyond the average person's understanding what I just said to you of all that it's easier to just explain to people look energy is basically going to be free and it should be you shouldn't be paying $800 for your heating bill every month or whatever it is. So, that's the reason why I say that. And the cold fusion thing, too. I'm just pissed off that they like just covered up cold fusion. So, I'm just we're just going back to it. Even though, like you said, yes, you'll never hear, you know, that academic physicists say that cold fusion's real or that free energy is real. But that's why I like to do it because I want to push back on those preconceived notions, that stigma. That stigma is how they've been another part of the reason why they've been able to hide it because if you just make it off limits, you make it taboo and then nobody will approach it. And then if you start to talk about oh well free energy that's fake. You can't even begin to talk about that. So that's what the barrier I'm trying to break down. And honestly I think it's been pretty successful because and what you do is you attack it from the same fundamental physics that you write about in your book is you say well why is a hydrogen atom stable? Right? Or does energy actually even flow through wires? Does electricity flow through the wires? It actually doesn't. We can prove that it's actually flowing through the fields, throwing through the fields and not through the wires. >> Well, you can also explain what you just said. Maybe the viewers haven't heard the the answer of zero point energy to explain why the hydrogen atom is stable. Basically, you have a a negatively charged electron above the positively charged nucleus proton and they should be immediately annihilated, you know, united together and form nutrinos and so forth. But the the event doesn't happen because there's so much activity of the virtual particle field which is zero point energy that causes the uh repulsive casmir force and that's exactly what's stabilizing the electron and the proton at a certain statistics. So this is the one of the basic proofs of zero point energy that that our reality your body my body every material particle material object is sustained by 0 point energy in in the subatomic microscopic realm. Do you know uh and by the way that was a beautiful explanation and I think it's the most important thing because like you said that's the fundamental proof that zero point energy exists and if anyone wants to say otherwise well you got to explain why the hydro why any atom is stable but do you know Ferris Williams and the reason why I bring up Ferris Williams is because he uh he corrected the thermonuclear weapons yields turns out they were off by like 50% and there was this big controversy Y over it and there was a tribunal and it turned out he was right and they never explained what it was that he was able to find some major flaw in the math to correct nuclear weapons yields like that. The the the faithfront justification was well they were afraid if these were to blow up while they're in storage it's going to cause way more damage than what they expected and if they're near a city it would destroy the city. But really the underlying subtext is does he know something more about physics that we don't know? And after he was proven right, what we do know is that he lost all faith with academia and professors because he realized like if all these people are wrong and I'm just some guy with a calculator like able to figure this out, then maybe people don't understand fundamental physics correctly. And it turns out he decided if you look at his theory is his his personal phys there's an extra dimension and there's an extra dimension that's like unified via torque via spin via very similar to the a vector potential. So I was curious have you heard of him at all? No, but your um analysis of the u the spin being an important ingredient and and also an energetic component of it is I think very important and in fact that's what's present with the electron and the proton. They're not they're not stationary. They're constantly in motion and that has something very vital and let's say an ingredient in the interaction between the vacuum virtual particles and the repulsion effect that keeps the electron and proton apart from the strategy because they could actually have two stationary particles electron and proton and they would actually attract each other. So if they're not moving then you do have that standard electrostatic action there specific to angular momentum and lots of interesting spin effects. Torsion is a field that you can research and you find lots of advocates advocates specifically for torsion physics where space itself is supposed to have push and and there's actually some good arguments from it experimental point of view or angular momentum is something that this virtual particles in space itself controls and possesses. Yeah, >> that's what Salvador Pais says his pais effect. he says is uh what happens under a charge motion either vibration or spin of charged matter, you know, and that that to me speaks directly what Ferris Williams was talking about, but also kind of reminds me of Ning Lee and Gene Pakenov and Martin Tajar who were talking who were spinning superconductors around, right? And then they were seeing these anti-gravitational effects, weight loss types effects. I noticed that you mentioned I think George Hathaway several times who was the guy who tested a lot of these effects, but I feel like most of his effects found a null response that there was no provable, repeatable, testable results. What are your thoughts? >> So far, so far George has been very rigorous in his testing. And I even witnessed one of the pip plug mouth devices that he reproduced with pip plug mouse in instructions and still he was able to um show that air currents were involved and lots of specific things that created the small effect that he found. Um, and we get to 10% or higher, then I think we're going to be in ballpark. But NASA spent a million dollars on Cardinal when there was only one or two% reported benefit. So, we get to more robust inventions shortly. >> Can I really trust NASA though? Like, here's the problem I've got with NASA. like Sunny White tested anomalous thrust in the EM drive and their paper is still available. What does it say? I can't. It's got green screened. >> Oh, there it is. >> Yeah. I but it's called Intersect and it's by a NASA former NASA astronomer but it has lots of UFO specifics including the Gemini project that he discovered the original film canisters under his floorboard. >> Yeah, that's where I I do believe they've been whatever. Uh I think they've been brushing UFOs out of the photos for a long time. Wouldn't surprise me at all. Uh, you know, I know Gary at McKinnon claimed that and, uh, Donna, I can't remember her last name. >> Donna Hera, I saw her personally at the disclosure thing in 2001 and it was so um, disappointing and emotionally um, you know, rendered that you could tell she was really upset because she discovered them, you know, airbrushing the the circular objects off of every photo that came into NASA from space, you know. So that's been going on for decades now standard practice and he he Marian Rdnik in this intersect book describes he was involved in that too of his great dismay that he was forced to get rid of a UFO in one of the test pilot projects that there were you know he was he was hired to do. So anyway, so it's a great book in that regard because he was a skeptic, didn't believe in any UFO stuff and then got forced into discovery of of things he rather have not found out. >> I think that's what happens to most people though is that they they start off a skeptic, right? And then they find they have some inflection point that occurs. And I think even the engineers have that happen. you know, why you listen to Bob Wood and the way he kind of smiles and his video and the interviews he did with uh Stephen Greer and you realize like, yeah, these guys are in like a little brotherhood. Like, I think this is how they kept it secret is that you go in these black projects and you're like hanging out with the boys, right? It's you and the other guys who are like wrote these papers. You can imagine, right? And you're now like, "Okay, guys, we need you to make the teleportation tech." And you're like, "Well, I got the smartest people in the room right here." And you can say anything you want to these guys, but the moment you leave that room, you can never speak about it to anybody. Not even your wife, not even your kids, right? >> And uh and so you can imagine what that would do is you wouldn't want to tell, you wouldn't want to turn on your bros. I mean, if you say anything, you're exposing your friends, you know? So, I think that's part of the way they've been able to kind of keep it secret and keep it out of the public eye. And this is why I push back on the alien narrative in general and the UFO narrative because I go, they're kind of like holding this back behind them. You know, this is the thing that's interesting to a lot of people. A lot of people aren't interested in aliens. I mean, a lot of people are, but a lot of people aren't, but a lot of people would be interested in free energy or teleportation technology or the healing technologies that we haven't even spoken about today, but we'll maybe do on a follow-up is that that's what kind of scares me is that they're kind of holding back the the real prize. And the other the reason why I say this is that I think that if free energy and teleportation and zero point energy, all this stuff is true, aliens are just a foregone conclusion. It means that aliens, if they're out there, they've got free energy technology. They've got teleportation technology. That means they're going to be way more advanced than us and what we've been imagining them in the movies to be. They're not going to be like little ET guy rolling up. It's going to be they're going to be rolling up with like disintegrator technologies, invisible cloaking technologies. They're going to be living forever. They might have avatar bodies. I mean, it could be crazy. like what are your thoughts on how far this thing could go with respect to where the technology leads us? >> Well, in in my um forthcoming book, the ethology textbook uh introduction to ethology, the the aim for me in chapter one is to at least provide the feasibility of what you just said that they're advanced uh societies. And one of the things I referred to, which is a very interesting diagram, I could probably share screen and and show it is by an anthropologist who studied the local neighborhood of up to about 25 light years from Earth. The Betty Hill star map, for example, goes up to 50 lighty years. So those lightyear numbers are are supposed to be convenient for space travel in advanced societies. But what struck me about this particular diagram I'm referring to is that it found there were clusters of stars in what they call them and I have it on my wall the Milky Way star family tree. And what we find is that unfortunately um the sun and our solar system is in one of the youngest family tree branches of only four or five billion years. And what we find right next to us, only a couple light meters away, I mean five, six, beyond alpha type distance, um, is that those stars are at least seven, eight, nine light years, I mean, billion years old. And so if you allow for the solar systems and and now they've discovered just recently that every star seems to have at least a planet or two around it. Um if those stars in the inhabitable zone u planets in the habitable zone of those stars are literally a few billion years older than we are which is actually what we're surrounded by according to this family tree. Um we're basically the youngsters in the neighborhood. So that's why this um uh there's a phrase for what Dr. Rainwright discovered when he set up a balloon to the highest level that he could and collected a titanium sphere on a sticky plate and brought it back down to Earth and discovered there was DNA inside it. So the idea of um of seeding our earth with DNA from space even asteroids have it amino acid and so forth. We've been peppered with DNA all the time. Even our food, for example, changes our DNA. So there's so many changes that apparently have been coming from space that have affected our evolutionary trend. It's no wonder that that ETSs seem to be a very realistic possibility because they've had a few billion years more time to advance beyond where we are in terms of our jungle logic. >> Yeah. And I think uh you know we at least used to think the universe is about 14 billion years old and then the newest as of like a year or two ago the newest paper is now thinking that the universe is like 26 27 billion years old. So the more we start to push that back and if the ether is true and we can explain dark energy with the ether and the universe might even be hundreds of billions of years old. Who knows? All of these possibilities basically mean that these aliens that would exist are going to be very very advanced, much more advanced than our 50,000 years of humanity that we've had you know recently. Um they've had a lot more time to advance and uh you know their civilizations then at that point the other thing that people I think don't really wrap their minds around is that civilizations could have been way more advanced in the past than where we're at now too. You know that we always think of everything as parallel. Yeah, you could talk about Mars, too. I mean, you know, Brandenburgg does a great job of showing that there's lots of things that happened 50 million years ago. Um, in fact, the the the latest Star Trek series actually did a episode recently on on this idea of Mars versus the fifth planet, which now is the asteroid belt. and the idea that Mars civilization was so advanced weapon-wise that they were able to destroy that planet in in the war that was continuing between them. Um and and this is something that Brandenburgg has contributed to with his uh discovery that there are two places of xenon 29 that exceed any natural explanation on Mars and the residue is still there from 50 60 years million years ago. um showing there were nuclear explosions of horrific size. In other words, the biggest hydro hydrogen bombs we can imagine. Air air air blast that probably also blasted the water uh that was there as well. >> Yeah, Brandenberg Kepler Space Institute pretty uh pretty interesting um organization and Brandenburgg himself too. I think he worked on some some interesting projects that maybe he can't talk about would be my guess. and he's also written a few books about the Mars problem of this explosion and how it how it explains the lack of an atmosphere virtually and and water um since then. So, it'll be interesting when we get there because still after several million years there could be a lot of remnants of that society. I want to change gears and um at least for this conversation I want to there's one last topic I want to talk about which is uh back to free energy which is free energy microchips is that uh and I want to get your opinion on some of these free energy microchips. I've found three free energy microchips, but I think you've already found all of them as well, and maybe you even know more than what I know. But I think it's going to be crazy that free energy is potentially going to get rolled out in a microchip before it gets rolled out in a magnetic motor or other some kind of other larger device. Like, my phone is going to have infinite energy. I don't understand how people are even going to be able to rationalize it while thinking that free energy is still fake. You've got Sunny White who's got his micro spark, just raised $12 million in venture capital. It was recently announced. You've got Garrett Mell who worked with Hal Pudof on investigating the ground state of the hydrogen atom using a microchip. I just found out. And you've also got Paul Tibido who is using his graphine. He doesn't really call it a zero point energy thing, but I think it is. But it's a graphine like thermo brownie and motion free energy device. What are your thoughts on just in general the whole concept of free energy microchips going to market and then what are your thoughts on these individuals and their free energy microchips? >> Oh well is one of my top heroes in my book. Um I've spent time with him in Colorado and um really talk to him oftentimes on the phone to really um try to advocate as much as I can for his virtualization of his invention which to explain to people u just briefly he basically has done something no one else in the world has done and that is used the Casmir force advantageously to allow for virtual particles. I guess we should explain a casm force. You have two parallel plates within a micron separation or so. And what happens is that separation between the plates limits how many frequencies of virtual particles can exist there. So the pressure normally is attracted from the outside to the inside of the parallel blades. Well, uh, the presence of virtual particles tends to be uniform and, um, and equal on both sides of the plates. Well, what Eric did is basically put a diode on one side. And this is brilliant because all of a sudden now he has control over what's happening to one of the plates versus the other and essentially the direction of the say electrons that might be um, present in in this population. articles. So he's got lots of proof of the um of the efficacy of this invention. Also what I found is interesting is the the device that he uses if he uses say four of them he gets four times the energy out electricity electrically wise. So this is this is real uh current real voltage and real power that he's producing on the micro scale. And of course, every time I talk to them, I say, "Well, have you scaled it up more? How big can you make this?" You know, um because in my book, which I've done in the practical conversion um book, I I wrote a journal article specifically on the concept that um has already been patented um of millions of these types of diodes. and the diode concept of um zero bias diodes for example that's my favorite where you don't need any voltage at all you just let them sit there and the small amount of trickle current that might appear from virtual particles would be rectified and so if we get millions or billions or more of them into a small region of a chip then essentially we might have a free energy device that operates without any ability with any problem. In other words, a true freedic device. So that's that's Garrett's um one of the things I have to end that story about Darren Modell which is a Colorado State University professor >> and you can uh Google 0oint energy lab uh for Derek Modell M O D to specifically see all the publications he's done and and videos. He's produced some wonderful videos that explain everything with slides and very common uh everyday language as well. But unfortunately, as compared to Tibido at the University of Arkansas, uh, Tibido's got a million-doll grant already and constantly talks about how soon he's going to have a chip on the market to amplify and and produce free electricity from the oscillation of his one atom graphine seats, which he's already proven work to produce electricity just from that oscillation. Once again using diodes to rectify the electricity. Imperative compare those two labs. Tibido is funded. Eric Modell is not funded. And Garrett Garrett told me he says nobody wants to fund zero point energy. They don't understand it. They don't believe it. It's almost like Bill Fusion. And so he's worked with a few grad students to try to produce the prototype that will be investable by the billionaires uh before you know and he's into longevity as well. He's got some schemes for longevity. He wants to make sure that he's still alive when the thing actually does get commercialized because he knows it's going to take longer than 50. >> Definitely. Yeah. And you can tell tell Dr. Modell you should come on my show. I mean, like I'm out here just trying to promote people, you know, and I'm asking for nothing in return. I'm not trying to catch people on something. So, >> uh, cuz I I reached out to him and I I watched all the videos you mentioned of his. That's why I found him and why I was so impressed cuz the big takeaway for me is he's got the experimental results that show there's a voltage there and you're going, okay, that's free energy. I mean, this is a micro it's not plugged in. What where's this voltage coming from here? And he just goes, he even asks like, where's the academic peerreview? Where's their response? There isn't one. There's just they just ignore it, right? And that goes to show that is the way of the suppression is that gets ignored. And it's not in some cases people aren't doing it actively. It's just because they have that bias that to just ignore anything related to zero point energy because they just don't believe that it's real. I think that if it ends up that this is all true, which I think we probably both agree that it is, that's got to be what the CIA did, right? They did some kind of sciopim just brainwash us into ignoring zero point energy entirely and make it just completely taboo. I mean that's the only explanation for how you hide all this for that long. And we need people like Garrett Modell and Paul Tibido and the rest. And it seems like diodes if people aren't familiar with that is I consider it like a one-way road, right? It's like a waterfall that they've created so that you know electrons can only flow one direction. Paul Tibido found that his configuration only works if the pathways were opposite directions as well. >> Be honest. Can I interrupt you for a second there? >> Yes. >> This is to me very humorous because Paul concided in me that really one diode was sufficient but he liked the idea of including two of them in opposite directions as you say. So it looks like it's an AC oscillation and he's not getting energy from one source to the other. Other words, he's circumventing the free energy debunking that normally happens in this situation. And unfortunately, it's called fringe. You saw the Make Magazine article about me from 20 years ago. This is the same thing I suffered from. Uh once you're labeled fringe, you know, all of a sudden there's a prejudice that you it's hard to get away from. See, this is where I think they made the mistake though. You got to just fight through it. Like this is where I just attack it, you know? And maybe it is a matter of no publicity is bad publicity, but like instead of like being koi about it and pushing away from it, that's how that you get picked on, right? Is that you give an inch [clears throat] and they take a mile. Instead, you just fight back and you go, you know what? I'm using one diode, right? Because they're going [laughter] looking at one diode, they're going, okay, that's free energy for sure then, right? And they won't say zero point energy because I know Paul Tibido even got asked about it. was like, "No, it's not free energy or it's not zero point." It's like, "Yes, it is. Let's be honest." Like, you know, if we look at >> thermal. >> Yeah. >> Well, thermals don't have the free energy. He doesn't want >> This is what the thermal computer guys told me, though. These guys made a thermal thermo uh thermal microchip and it works basically kind of similar to Paul Tibido's idea. And I'm going, "Oh, this is just like a quantum zero point energy microchip." It's not quantum, it's thermal. I'm going okay but like zero point energy has a connection to thermal you know that's the whole point because we live in this energy bath but >> whatever. So well tell me about Sunny White though. So what are your thoughts on his microchip? You told me about the other two. >> Well Sunny's working in a more theoretical realm. Um, I've talked to him and he's certainly got a a big chip on on his shoulders and I couldn't even send him book because he said he's got a whole bunch of them on his wall and he doesn't, you know, describe the fact that basically he knows the answers and other people are secondary to his information input. So I hope he actually does produce something that works you know as I do for all the inventors. Um but in in some cases you know they they are funded and then essentially we we still wait years for them to to show what the funds were actually used for. >> But he's got the most money though, right? I mean 12 million that's more than anybody else. That's a lot. >> Yeah. Know it's great to see he's got lots of money. Um and and many people with lots of money do produce something useful. You know, give some credit to SpaceX and so forth, but who knows, you know, what the 0 point energy developments will be in the near future. >> Hopefully the best. >> Okay. Well, we've been going for a couple hours here and I do want to talk to you again. And I got a lot more topics, but I kind of want to break it up into chunks for people, for us, and for the audience as well. So, let me ask you, let's round it up with this last question, which I think is what is it that you know you want out of this or what do you want people to know? What have you been trying to get out? Because you put so much work into collecting all this information, it's mindblowing. Even just the information on this key is probably better than any of the other zero point information I've ever seen. So, what keeps you going on this? I mean, even scheduling with you, you're like, I've got to get the books out. I've got to get the stuff going. Like, you are you work hard on this. So, what drives you? What is it that you would want for humanity? Well, my hope is to help humanity advance to the point where we have a stable society and we're not fighting over, you know, food and water and everything that the future global warming is going to be making things worse instead of better. Uh, and how do we counteract that? Well, the three energy concept and all of its ramifications is is really an answer to prevent a lot of suffering that is is in our near future as the heat becomes more intolerable. Um, so I have great sympathy. I feel the world is my family. I've never had a desire to have personal children myself. I got married into a wonderful wife that has three kids of her own and and so they're my stepsons and I I love them very much. But in general, I've also had that desire from an early age that um that I want to follow like Tesla's ambition where really he's trying to save humanity and I feel that if I can save the world that'd be wonderful and so I want to perpetuate our institute. I want to see our institute really continued in its research um accumulation of information that often times disappears once the inventor disappears. Um I I can go down the short list of earthquake prevention of energy production of even unusual propulsion devices inertial propulsion. Um, Mike uh Gamble is a good hero of mine. I advocated and financed his work to produce a device from Boeing aerospace down to a tabletop device that moves across a table um under its own power. It's exciting to me to find so many unusual inventions that basically don't have funding, but a small amount of money at least produces the prototype. And then next stage is how do we publicize it? How do we get this to be uh part of our future device in and commercial product instead of seeing it disappear into has over a 100 inertial propulsion patents in one of our reports have all disappeared and gone onto the shelves and and this is the destiny of many inventions that that we are concerned about. Personally, I've worked in two areas that I feel are also research and development capable. In other words, the R&D is is my favorite. The R has been done in many cases, but the D for development is still waiting for investment. One is the zero bias diode, which I referred to, it's in most of my books on zero point energy, and also the spiral magnetic motor. I believe that magnetism itself is a source of energy, but we haven't figured out how that could be done. Many of the UFOs that are in circular form have rotating arcs inside of them. That's where I started 1980. I interviewed Norman Pollson claimed to have the head of ship UFO and he was told which is in my homopolar handbook reprinted from his book that yes that we have a device the size of the ship that has magnets on the outer edge one of which produces electricity two of which in opposite directions produces our propulsion that was the story he was told so I became very intrigued with the homopolar generator thinking that's the good way to investigate the power of magnets but it's more sophisticated than just that. John Surl is another invention that I perceive a lot. In fact, I even got my friend Ivan Kublack to invest millions along with other investors in a Russian version of the serial device which is a magnetic device for rotating device that resembles hopar generators around each one. So I could go on and on about all the different advocacies that we've done, but the investment into the nonprofit organization that we have, Integrity Research Institute, is something that that then perpetuate this effort that really takes a team of people which I've seen in downtown DC start evolves from a single very visionary person and and that's I feel you know that's me. I'm a visionary person and hopefully I'll attract a family of like-minded people that can become part of the institute as a program. >> Wow. Well, thank you very much for both your time but also all the effort that you put into the instit in Integrity Research Institute. So guys, integrity-ressearch.org. You guys can check out all of the content that's available. Pick up anything you need to increase your own knowledge. Please help share the knowledge because as Tom just said, the whole point is to get this knowledge out there and make people I think in terms of my perspective, we're trying to hit [clears throat] an inversion point where suddenly people now to realize this is all true. This isn't just superstition. It's not just pseudocience and it can explain UFOs and potentially propel us to, you know, the next level of the Cardartesev scale potentially even beyond that. Maybe even break the card scale if we're right about this free energy. So, thank you very much, Tom, for your time. Any last thing that you want to shout out before we go? >> Well, our older website is called integrity researchinstitute.org. That's the one that I worked on and then my wife started the integrity research with Shopify. But the older one has a lot of videos on it. Um has some other historical things with different topics of space travel and so forth. So that's an alternative way to start. Integrity researchinstitute.org. And then there's a link to the latest one which is what we said integrity-. >> Awesome. Well, thank you very much and have a great day and thank you everybody, all the people who are watching for watching and supporting. Check out Tom's work. Check out his content. Thank you guys. Have a good day. You too.